Not meant to be an accurate description of post contents and/or original posters personalities. Significant effort has been made to make all parties seem more immature than they really are. Any and all names or likeliness is purely coincidental and the writer of this post advocates the reader to go back and read the original content but for everyone else that wants a quick run down of this monster sticky here we go:
Page 1
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Thread started based off wrightak’s post in another thread Fabrice lays down ground rules like a BOSS. Fabrice was looking to potentially use this to better the site.
a-Kun-yomi (Mostly)
b-Stick to heisig meaning
c-Kanji compounds written in hiragana only.
Fabrice Final Point: Probably better for those who completed RTK already.
2nd the motion
2nd the motion
maybe…
2nd the motion
wrightak: Cool let’s do this btw problem with hiragana as some words are exactly the same in hiragana. Suggested Sentences for context.
Jarvik7: Add more info ex: 昇る(as in sun), Choose different common word 登録 or 登頂
Page 2
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Jarvik7: Keep things simple. Too much info is bad for beginners. I’m pretty sure their minds can’t handle it.
Devil’s advocate: Wouldn’t someone doing J-Keywords not be a beginner and can understand Japan-esque sentences.
Here-Here
Jarvik7: You are sadly mistaken for REASON1, REASON2, etc.
DA: I yield.
Just please no pictures!
It will be hard if I don’t already know the words.
Wrightak: I’m back from my one week ciesta I’ll get you guys list eventually. It’s blasphemy to even think about adding English words that is what we are trying to get rid of.
Page 3
Fabrice: Leaning towards short Japanese prompts. Will contemplate further. Oh! are we sticking to my kunyomi idea? Whatcha think?
…Sure?
NO ENGLISH!
Are these the sort of keywords that people envisage?
1 one ひとつ
2 two ふたつ
3 three みつ
4 four よっつ
5 five いつつ
6 six むっつ
7 seven ななつ
8 eight やっつ
9 nine ここのつ
10 ten とお
11 mouth くち
12 day ひ or ひにち
13 month つき
14 rice field た or たんぼ
15 eye め or めをとじて
More less. Be nice to have that list that wrightak has…
Let’s put this on Google docs
option for each card to use the English keyword, Japanese keyword, or both.
Having both on the flashcards is reasonable but there are the other problems..
I see this most fruitful as a kunyomi review for post-RtK1 learners, to keep on reviewing characters AND learn 2000 words at the same time. Hit two birds with one stone.
In this context, you wouldn’t want to see the english keyword since you also want to actively recall the meaning from the Japanese phonetic reading. It’s one of the review options mentioned by Heisig at the end of RtK Vol 2.
Gdocs!
Raulir:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pSVGYHKdvOhPYS9s2aQ5xRQ
Raulir wrote:
I pretty much threw away my guidelines in the middle of making it and
started using anything that works for me, so it may not be all that
useful for your purposes. No harm in having it, though
Some of the
examples and kanjis aren’t, uh, “family friendly”, as that has never
been a goal of mine, so don’t be surprised if you find a couple of
those.
Wrightak:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pSVGYHKdvOhPxNTHq5aUHNQ&gid=0
woohoo!
Page 4
Wrightak: Rules governed towards Fabrice’s vision for the site.
1. Choose kunyomi
2. Common word beginner likely to know.
3.Meaning close to Heisig
Not always possible but give it a shot
JimmySeal: I think obscure words just for the sake of Kunyomi is stupid.
Wrightak: I would agree but its up to Fabrice. It’d be cool to make a Japanese person do this for us. Err help us.
Fabrice: Let’s make 2 list. One for the site and the other Idc what you do but at least one for the site.
Sure thing!
Fabrice: That’s just the kind of guy I am. ::Snap point::
RTK2 info and evidence.
Fabrice: Example flashcards for writing kanji within compounds. Shows examples with hiragana and the other non tested kanji in kanji.
Woah some kanji don’t have kunyomi.
Lets mainly do words; example phrases only when necessary.
Page 5
Formatting and recruitment efforts
Like 700-1000 of these babies like don’t have kunyomi guys. What to do?
JimmySeal: …Like I said. Sticking to Kunyomi is stupid. Pick a compound that:
1. Resembles Heisig keyword
2. Are Kinda common.
But compounds have homophones
Yep oh well it’s Japanese
Wrightak: I’m glad we are all working on this I feel close to you guys. GROUP HUG!BIG GROUP HUG!
Jimbo is right let’s just try to avoid homophones as much as possible and keep to some common words.
There is a resource with common kunyomi and common compounds with sentences already published but maybe out of print.
「よく使われる新聞の漢字と熟語」
豊田豊子 (Toyoko Tomoda)
凡人社 (Bonjinsha) 1981
ISBN4-89358-021-3 C3081
Y1500 paperback (20 years ago)
Fabrice made a silly mistake but corrected himself very smoothly…
Page 6
Fabrice: Hmmm I don’t think I’ll change the site but keep working this list is AWESOME! And could possibly hit every kanji
2 months pass…
…Uhh anybody still working on this?
Wrightak: Yep but I’m making my own list first.
STICKIED. Yuckk.
Off Topic-ish not completely
Page 7
Links
http://sites.google.com/site/wrightak2/afterrtk1
Option 1. AfterRTK start again with Japanese keywords
Option 2. As you review delete English and switch to Japanese Keywords
Option 3. Have both english and Japanese cards (redundant)
Or do sentences…
Sentences and Uncommon kanji issues
I’m not doing on-yomi option but just adding words that I know. Yes there are homophones.
I’m considering switching to Japanese Keywords…
Page 8
wrightak,
your work is priceless.
Thanks for the kind words.
You can take your progress from the site and import into Anki without losing progress.
I find adjusting the keywords to words I already know a lot easier.
(Apparently theres an Anki deck that I apparently missed while reading this thread)
Hey which kanji are missing from the deck
List of missing kanji with heisig numbers and meanings
giving yourself hints on the card makes it easier but I dont suggest it.
Page 9
This takes too long I’m gonna stick to english keywords are here’s Why?
Quitting reason1
quitting reason 2
I decided to start for WINNING reason1 WINNING reason 2
Hey wrightak that’s good and all and I’m gonna let you finish I just don’t see your point.
Japanese keywords may be inaccurate it is more like Japanese prompts.
Grrr English RTK is too hard I’m switching to J-go.
Rich_f is a Boss at progression.
JLPT list me some vocab.
http://www.spurrymoses.com/jlpt/
Nukemarine is getting his interest in Spreadsheets peaked.
Wrightak: ooo rich_f you wasted a lot of time some of that was done already.
Rich_f: Oops oh well I still made it BOSS
Hey guys I’m doing this J-Keyword thing too!
Page 10
Some of these keywords are names and thats why it’s not in a dictionary.
Offtopic
I’m gonna do this too.
Jarvik7: You could just replace the keywords with Japanese as you fail them…
What I’ve been doing is replacing the English keyword with a Japanese one in my Anki deck as they come up for review.
Personally, I find using a Japanese keyword about equal to using an English keyword.
Page 11
Rather than argue I’m just gunna agree
tl;dr
henshall blasphemy
The Gospel According to Dr. Heisig
And as he looked upon his followers he opened the way for knowledge and “Ahah!” moments to leap bounds in the infinite space of the human brain as he spoketh the words of The big Doc in Nagoya.
“…For much in the same way that the character slowly finds its way into the fabric of memory and muscular habits, the key word will gradually give way to a key concept distinct from the particular English word used to express it. Hence the substitution of a Japanese word – or even a number of words – will prove no stumbling block. Quite the contrary, it will help avoid confusion between key words with family resemblances.” –:page 308 of RTK1 4th edition, 3rd paragraph:–
Fight
Fight
Fight
TheNUKE: I get the feeling Heisig is saying “Don’t use a Japanese keyword if you don’t know the Japanese keyword.”
wrightak: Realizing this thread is long and getting bulky I’m gonna repost this summary for newcomers http://wrightak.googlepages.com/afterrtk1
This is my first post in forum section. I haven`t yet read through the whole topic yet, so if the following idea was already discussed, I beg your pardon.
I mean, if there were a hint – japanese reading “わたし” under the english keyword [private]- I would never make such mistake.
Great idea!
Thats kinda what I do… before it was cool. (hipster glasses)
Page 12
frequency talk
correction in spreadsheet talk
homophone talk
no need for example sentences on every card
this seems too hard for me…
Page 13
Argueing about English being a useful tool to learn japanese
The Gossip According to Dr. Heisig
Once more he speaks
“After you have acquired a sizeable number of cards for drill, you will have to set up for yourself a routine for drilling (1) from meaning to writing, (2) from exemplary compound to on-yomi, and (3) from inflected kanji to kun-yomi. If you worked your way faithfully through Vol. I, you may feel that there is no longer any neeed for drill (1). In this case I recommend that you drill the writing directly from the hiragana kun-yomi on Side 2.” -RTK2, chapter 11-
Links to spreadsheet so you can download it.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgUgyCHX3qnJcFNWR1lIS2R2T2hQeE5USHE1YVVITlE&hl=en#gid=0
Page 14
Import into Anki talk
JLPT list link with furigana and core 2009
https://sites.google.com/site/ankinihongo/
Japanese support anki talk
are these spreadsheets safe to use?
Bug wrightak on twitter ;p
I’m scared of twitter. twitter keeps me up at night.
I keep english and japanese keywords so I can have many homophones no problem.
Sometime along these two years wrightak got a life and stopped updating this thread.
Pats on the back for everyone who helped on spreadsheets.
Page 15
nest0r posted like 30 links on subjects that are interesting and beg to be clicked.
Last edited by nest0r (2009 December 11, 9:06 pm)
More on topic…
I’d love to hear some of the experiences people have with using a JRtK deck long term!
For the words I DO know though, it makes it MUCH easier.
Wrightak: 久しぶり
we love you wrightak!
Wrightak: wink😉
Japanese guy’s opinion on some J-KW’s
Jarvik7: Psh what does he know! I’ve seen those words before.
I agree Japanese people really don’t know what is used.
Challenge accepted.
The Japanese guy changed his mind in the face of opposition and said they do use these Kanji. Japanese learners- 1 Native Japanese Speaker- Every other time but seriously doesn’t count because they are Japanese.
Rare words
Page 16
1st post decided to switch to J-keywords.
Necro post
Hey guys I don’t want to learn japanese but my kid does is it possible to eliminate homophones I think he should just jump into learning real japanese without any prior experience through a list of 2136 Kanji and vocab words. 1st post
Uhhh…
Okay been working and I think my son might be good with this.
Sure suggestion 1 and 2
Abandoned this but I made a program you should all check out I swear theres no malware on it. THX BYE!
Is there an updated list for all these?
Interesting summary.
Posted by Andrew Wright | August 3, 2011, 2:39 amThanks, I’ve had several aborted attempts to read that thread. Good to get a summary.
Posted by Adam | January 1, 2012, 9:36 amNow this is quality content.
Posted by rainmaninjapan | April 23, 2016, 4:49 am